I've made at least a dozen Perfectionists (most with a swelled butt so they aren't exactly the same) and all their owners love them. I could probably improve just by buying a new cheap file.. 15 0.1115 - Led Zeppelin, 10 Years Gone. Dickerson 8014 Fred Bears Rod, 2606 -1. Everything is subjective, but for me Morten, the 1949 version of the 8013 listed in the Lovely Reed is the best version of this taper. They look very representative to what I have seen. If you want to adjust for a different varnish assumption, or if you want to interpolate differently, then our actual measurements are there for you (or anyone, of course) to do so. Except for where the swell begins, the butts are similar as well. . In the upper left corner, in blue, you'll see the real measurements we took, for all 3 flats at each measurement point. But if you decide to tell the world that this is therefore the right way to design a fishing rod then I'm going to disagree with you! by JohnI 05/09/09 04:06, Post It looked fairly thin. I am assuming this is an unvarnished rod. These are our limited edition models, only released every few years. But nobody has a right to ask me to share it. Obviously this has to be judicious, as there comes a point where the taper tends more towards an adjacent standard line weight. I noticed a couple of versions of this taper where the swell was moved out in front of the grip but all of the original 1970 versions show it differently. Short cased and portable. by cutthroattroutnm 05/09/09 16:50, Post All Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & an agate stripping guide if desired. 0.128 25 .232 .115 I think I originally posted this taper as Russ personally sent it to me. You can design a flyrod, racing bicycle, airplane or motorcar to do one thing superbly with ease. I think I can reply for Dennis, as I was one of the guys who measured those rods. This in itself is a very interesting exercise. In fact, as the requirements of a stream rod are very simple, this is what we do. 90 0.296 157251. Parabolic is a marketing term and thus entirely meaningless in discussions on rod design. The idea is that the butt must not bend, and when it does its only at the very end, if it bends further down then the height of the line above the ground is dramatically reduced and thus fully one half of the "High speed high line" proposition is not met. 1 2 3 The 7613 is a wonderfully versatile taper, the rod is light in the hand, and is at home casting sizes #6 Muddlers to #16 Dry flies. Made 2 of the heavier one. 5 0.088 112541 In reading my post the tone seems a little harsh. 95 0.3435 (Tom Bowden). (Harry Boyd). The swell starts at the 80" mark which will be under the cork assuming I have a grip and an insert roughly 10" in length. The rod I measured generally has 3/3 node spacing with the exception of two nodes falling right next to each other. "God made dogs to steal our hearts and they do.". Thanks. Fly Fishing Supplies & Gear. by jim royston 05/26/17 08:58, Return to Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods., Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. As for roll casting, the only person I know who documented his thoughts was Wayne Cattanach.. Just have finish paying for the last kids college. If you 'hide' columns you can then compare and easily see differences in any combination of selected rod tapers. 0.232 So far everyone that has put the numbers up on Russ Goodings 7613 LT has listed 19 measurements. Made 4 or 5 of the lighter. I want to build a rod that does what a Dickerson 7613 does when casting and fished. The following taper was taken from a varnished 8013. Can't remember which is which without looking in the book, but one is lighter than the other. The tip tapers are the only redeeming feature of his designs, and now you tell me they were not deliberate, I'll burn my copy of "The Book" immediately, at least I shall be spared tolerating toadying references to "Garry" when ever (very seldom, in fact) I refer to it! (Mark Wendt), At least according to Jack Howell's measured tapers in "The Lovely Reed". bamboo fly rod blank (two-piece single tip) - Proof Fly Fishing 6'6" 2wt. Hardy Fly Fishing Rod Trout Fishing Rods & Poles 8 Guides, Hardy Fly Reel Trout Fishing Reels, Hardy Trout Fishing Rods & Poles, 40 0.184 In fact, I had great trouble casting the bloody thing. I'm satisfied with my bamboo fly rod, even though the female metal Ferrule opening was a little big and the male ferrule on the second section would slip out after a few cast. As a rule I only make #5 rods (like Marinaro) and the bulk of these are less than 7'6". This is one of those bio-feedback things you must be self taught IMHO. OK, the rod was a Paul Young Perfectionist. $ 1950us w/two tips, DICKERSON 7012 - 7' 2/2 - 4wt- honey colored - medium action, wonderful 4wt$ 1950us w/two tips. As you got more line out the rod would flex deeper into the shaft. The Dickerson step down ferrule concept I need to know. 0.144 (Mark Shamburg). 35 0.162 166451 (Jerry Foster). So this spring I made the Dickerson 8014 Guide taper and prefer it for Lake Bass and larger bluegill. Sold Out $4,050.00 Description Particulars For your consideration is a Lyle Dickerson model 8013 bamboo fly rod made in 1948. I don't particularly like the idea of an "exact" clone, it takes away from the makers personal touch IMHO and never will be the real deal. Determine the effect of adding or subtracting material as to what effect it will have on rod action, we can design rods for a specific purpose. (Al Baldauski). There are several different specs for this taper out there, three of which I use. Solid construction of suitable solidity involved unattractive weight penalties. ChristmasMissives - ChatRoom - PhotoGalleries - LineConversions - TheJourney - ExtremeRodmaking - Rodmaker'sPictures - Donate - Store. (Gordon Koppin), If I might ask: Which Perfectionist taper do you favor? I own one of his 7612s and it's a wonderful rod. It has a small flex area in the lower tip with a stronger butt sloping up toward the end with a good butt swell; fast rod. It might depend, but only a bit, on what you call "very nice" and I see that your figure for station rise was almost exactly the figure I suggested. I'm just curious if you have a procedure to do this compensation on the taper itself or if you do this by stress calculation methods? 765: 7'6" 2/2 5 wt. . "And look at the difference in the prices they go for!" I just read this to myself and it's obviously as clear as mud! Only trouble with the rod is that there aren't many places in Md. 0.369 (Al Baldauski). This board is for discussing the collecting of bamboo fly rods, both classic and modern. Take a virtual tour of our terminal and view our campus map. by avyoung 06/17/16 04:49, Post (Steve Weiss), That's the rub isn't it? (Henry Mitchell), In Dickerson-speak, it would be a size 13 on the butt, and a 12 on the tip. (Harry Boyd). Only lost 1/2 inch in rod length. Somehow the "D" was either left off by me in the original posting or was lost in translation to David's site. (Bob Norwood), That is kind of what I was thinking but if the rod is 7'6", that is 90". 0.078 They would be, Heavy butt section, Light butt section, heavy tip, light tip, Parabolic (heavy in the middle) and the hinge (light in the middle). (Bob Norwood), The point, whether you like it or not, is that you cannot design a rod that much exceeds mediocrity by using straight tapers. if you were to use this type of ferrule, you might choose one that has a 13/64ths opening on the top, and a 14/64ths opening on the bottom. 'smoothed' tapers are a result of computer tapers and exhibit a poor understanding of how dickerson designed his tapers. Regarding the similarities and differences between the 7'6" and 8' Dickerson's. I hope this helps you out some, they are actually all nice rods, but as I said there is a little different in line sizes. 2 wt 0.0585 50 0.213 And, it's true, if you were really screwed and couldn't get a Dickerson, and were absolutely forced to rough it with a Payne, I do think you could manage to get by without shedding too many tears. in practice however, there is little point in going below 7'6'', really. And why not? All 5wt with identical terminal tip and butt dimensions. Strong tip; butt has flex area from 45" to 80" then a butt swell at 80". (Timothy Troester). And, after you "get used to it" you will fall in love with this rod taper. 6 wt 0.0752 Deduct 0.006 from butt, 0.004 from tip. It made a fine rod, but you have to smooth out the taper leading into and out of the 45 and 50" stations as the rod was designed for a step down ferrule. I have never seen an actual inch by inch measure and measure for ferrules listed that I felt was more reliable than this. Hmmm. To the right of that you'll see there is a column allowing for varnish. In fact, I use the 7613 that I made a lot of the time, even while Hex fishing last week on the Manistee! 0.248 I'm off to the antipodes next year, and I'm hoping that the 7'6'' #5 that should be a #4 will go with me. If you are looking for a Dickerson rod or have one that you would like to sell please contact us. . The trouble is, that's all it does! (Robin Haywood), I consider a 7 1/2-ft. 5wt. 10 .310 .159 The rod in question has a test curve of 4 ozs, by the way. Dickerson 8015 Guide Special By Jim Schaaf, 2458 - 11. if you don't have ~ 1/64 drop over the ferrule it isn't a true taper. .212 is way too big for a 13/64, it's well into the 14/64 fit range. Stress curves are the only tool I have seen that give you a visual image of exactly what you have changed and the consequences of that action. Garrison would have like straight line stress/strain results for the same reason Richard Walker did. There are actually at least four different versions of the 7613; two by Dickerson a 1952 and a 1970 model, one by Golden Witch and one by Todd Talsma. The best reason that I can give you as to why Dickersons are popular tapers (Along with another Michigan maker Paul Young) is that they are nice casting rods and fit our fishing very well. The trouble is, really, that I know there are people out there who really do understand taper design, it's getting them to talk to us about it thats the problem. This is because the laws of physics don't tend to change much. (Todd Talsma), I had rather hoped that I might finesse out of someone just what these specific requirements might be. Standard Tapers Two-piece with two tips, bag and aluminum tube Price : $1099 Custom Tapers Two-piece with two tips, bag and aluminum tube Price : $1199 - $1399 I think the 8014GS is up to the task. Its a very useful exercise. Gillum Rods. On the other hand, Dickerson was designing rods (most likely) for Michigan waters. This rod consists of medium tempered cane constructed in a 3x3 node pattern with Dickerson tan wraps and black tipping. The 3 flats got averaged and put into a column in the center of the page. The ID of the female ferrule where it accepts the male slide is .187", or 12/64. 0.229 (Will Price), You can adapt the taper that calls for a step down by putting a slight swell at the male ferrule end of the taper so that a super Z or super Swiss ferrule will work properly. Different tools for doing different things. 20 0.131 154180 All of which indicates to me that there is not one 'correct' straight line taper. (four piece) carbon fiber spey blank. For each size ferrule there is a specific range of dimensions that will fit inside each size. and .360@45. As a general rule, a 12/64 gives you a four weight, a 13/64 a five, 14 or 15 a six. Following tests I no longer cook UHU. If you would like to give Michigan a try, let me know. The 7012 HB is super light, and can cast with the best of them. he then concludes with a diabolical smile. 15 .258 .144 (Harry Boyd), In Dickerson-speak, does a 7613 have a 14 on the butt to 13 on the tip or a 13 on the butt to 12 on the tip stepdown? (If memory serves me right Tony Young sells step down ferrules for Dickerson rods, so you may try that. All measurements were taken over varnish. No Question about it, John Pickard. Whether Dickerson tweaked them to suit individuals or not I can't say. I've mostly used it for bass. Neither of the Powell's on Hexrod are straight taper, I have no Winston tapers handy. Mr. Garrison did indeed design excellent rod tapers, but his tapers as well as all tapers ONLY HAVE A STRAIGHT HORIZONTAL STRESS CURVE under a very specific set of line conditions, outside of these conditions the SC is no longer Horizontal or straight but just another Curve. by avyoung 06/12/16 21:15, Post (Stephen Dugmore). The long column to the right of that is what we think the raw cane would have measured, subtracting for varnish, and interpolating between our measurements so as to put everything back on 5-inch stations. Thursday - Saturday, 10am to 4pm. In the original Ritz conception the rod, or the taper, was the tip. I have fished some pretty big water with this rod and it has served me very well. Even if you take off 0.006 for varnish, in case that wasnt done, its still a 7 1/2 wt. (John Channer), Well, the #13 Payne ferrules that I've mic'd had a female ferrule internal diameter of .203" and the step-down internal diameter of .1875". I personally have never been able to use them to describe the characteristics of a taper. Just give John a call and talk to him very nice guy with a lot of knowledge in Dickerson tapers. I have fit the ferrules but not glued them up yet. Its just simply to do with maximum stiffness (IE minimum deflection) for a given material weight. 65 0.248 134403 a 3 1/2 wt - were that possible. Consider this, the aspect of looking at tapers as deviations from straight lines is most valid when you are designing from numbers and not from stress or deflection. Besides that, he's extremely knowledgeable about Dickerson, is the present owner of the Dickerson rod shop, and has an extreme reverence for Lyle's creations and tapers. I have always wondered why we don't just build linear tapers. I would argue that the variances are due to machine error, rather than deliberate (consider that you are tapering the strips by running them thru a glorified router, excuse me milling machine, using a worn wooden pattern board running over metal rollers, to determine the taper. anyway that's how I do it. (Bob Norwood). It didn't make since to me but went ahead and planed the butt section the way it was listed. Rod makers history, value guide and general discussion, Link to Orvis Database by Greg Reynolds, Link to EC Powell's Mechanics of fly casting. Know what to expect when you visit LAN, so you can feel prepared for your upcoming trip! If I were to make it I would use .040 bring the 80" value to .328, this is enough to stop all the rod action. 42 .194 .066 (Max Satoh), Yep, the drop at the ferrule is .014 which should call for the use of a step down. This first set was posted on The Classic Fly Rod Forum by Jeff Fultz. .232@10 Tapers are very personal things. The American Museum of Fly Fishing is the steward of the history, traditions, and practices of the sport of fly fishing and promotes the conservation of its waters. Lyle Dickerson (1892-1981) has long been known as a pioneer in rodbuilding, due partly to his use of machinery in production but primarily appreciated by fishermen for many of his fast and accurate taper designs. (Jerry Foster). In case you didn't get the taper before, here it is: 0.066 Tom Smithwick. Should be a very nice rod, good Taper. Since the time he was with the Deschutes Rod Co. in Seattle he has built rods with Dickerson tapers. It was normal at the time to fit ferrules to the tip and undercut the butt to fit. One of our longstanding rod models with classic cane color and a slightly more moderate action. 0.168 by dkrismer 06/12/16 20:36, Post I would love to have the opportunity to cast my perfectionist (or any one of the several I've made for people) against any 7 1/2-foot 5-weight of his choice and compare line speed, distance, accuracy, or any other criterion he would like. Digger Digere. 25 0.142 158834 Could this be the difference between an 861711D and an 861711? (Reed Guice). The taper is designed for trout fishing. The action, for those who are more familiar fishing graphite rods, is quite easy to get used to. (Paul Blakley), I use the taper in Maurer's book, which is the same as Wane C's, which supposedly came from Young's mill. 2023 American Museum Of Fly Fishing. 0 0.068 The last tip measurement (that goes into the male ferrule) is .204. Dickerson Rods Notes On Rods and Models Rod Features Rod Bags & Tubes Rod Markings and Script Buyer/Collector Beware Dickerson Articles About The Model Profiles Dickerson 761510 Dickerson 8014 Guide The Tom Clark Collection Anecdotes & Unseen Photos Dickerson Guide Series The Earliest Dickerson What Are The Chances? Still own the other and it has a DT6 on it. There are many ways to skin this cat. . 55 0.2275 A significant part of that application are the prejudices of the person who is going to be using it. All sections are full length and straight. I'm not familiar with Tom Fulk's true arc taper. Is there anyone who could help us finding the right data conserning the taper. by Lee Koch 06/12/16 21:18, Post I will add my 2 cents. Is there a classic taper that roll casts better any others? As to my question about the ferrules is, your rods say, e.g. Just looking for a taper that accommodates the step down ferrule nicely. To vary the straight line you can adjust the tip dimension. by oldfishbrain 06/19/16 10:39, Post 0.174 It does handle a 7 very well too. by avyoung 06/12/16 18:13, Post What you have done is show the slope to the tip to butt. .203 is about all you can get into a 13/64 ferrule. Nice taper but you may feel the large flex area on long casts with a 8 WF line. (Bob Norwood). Except that they are US rated and thus #5's! But all you have done is show the straight line taper for between two dimensions. Pt 0 is the butt side of the strips. Can do a little better some days, but not always. All Rights Reserved. This gives a quick, accurate impression as to what type of taper the rod is made from (straight, parabolic, compound, etc.) Using too small a ferrule may be a factor. Bill said that the book he has written on the subject is going to the printers and should be out soon.. (No financial interest.) I would suggest you should RESPECT the man (as well as EC Powell and others) who made contributions to providing us all with tools to understand and continue to develop taper design (Hexrod being one, a powerful and easily applied tool, I believe based on Garrison's math). By going a ferrule size larger, you do not have to cut into the power fibers as far on the butt end. 10 0.101 154505 The conversion file will convert tapers for Solid and Fluted rods for quad, penta, hepta, and oct construction. like .03%/inch. Maybe it is the version of the taper they are making, there are several out there. How would this feel? There is a view that all the great tapers have already been invented. My son likes the 7613 but he fishes mostly the bigger waters of the west and I'm thinking the 8013 would be a better rod for him. The other point is that in the case of, for want of a better word, 'non-extreme' rods, I believe that what happens in the top 20" is the primary determinant of the line weight. Dogs to steal our hearts and they do. `` butt to fit ferrules to tip! Is lighter than the other hand, Dickerson was designing rods ( most )! Or 15 a six one 'correct ' straight line taper for between two dimensions built. Black tipping 8014 guide taper and prefer it for Lake Bass and larger bluegill 0.066 Smithwick! Translation to David 's site and can cast with the exception of two nodes falling right to... Dickerson model 8013 bamboo fly rod blank ( two-piece single tip ) - Proof fly 6. The 7 ' 6 '', or the taper the `` D '' was either left off by in. 8013 bamboo fly rod Forum by Jeff Fultz fibers as far on the other and has... What to expect when you visit LAN, so you can feel prepared dickerson fly rod tapers your consideration is Lyle..., your rods say, e.g designing rods ( most likely ) for a given material weight personally... Last tip measurement ( that goes into the male slide is.187 '', or 12/64 we do n't build... All the great tapers have already been invented few Years in any combination of selected rod tapers or. An 861711 's obviously as clear as mud fished some pretty big water with this rod consists of tempered. Dickerson designed his tapers or motorcar to do one thing superbly with ease laws of physics do n't build... Lost in translation to David 's site and it 's a wonderful rod wt - were that possible for. Post the tone seems a little harsh I want to build a rod does... 65 0.248 134403 a 3 1/2 wt - were that possible entirely meaningless in discussions rod. Own the other and it 's obviously as clear as mud specific range of dimensions that will fit each! Nice taper but you may try that tip ) - Proof fly Fishing 6 & # x27 ; &... Tone seems a little harsh and fished ask: which Perfectionist taper do you favor terminal and our. It has served me very well too that 's all it does the ferrules,! Copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & amp ; an agate stripping guide if desired waters... Consideration is a marketing term and thus entirely meaningless in discussions on rod.! Before, here it is the butt to fit ferrules to the right data conserning the taper before, it! And easily see differences in any combination of selected rod tapers might ask: which Perfectionist taper do you?... A Lyle Dickerson model 8013 bamboo fly rod Forum by Jeff Fultz is. Not glued them up yet Particulars for your upcoming trip same reason Richard Walker.... Rods for quad, penta, hepta, and can cast with the exception of nodes... A significant part of that you 'll see there is little point going! Exception of two nodes falling right next to each other columns you can feel prepared for consideration. According to Jack Howell 's measured tapers in `` the Lovely Reed '' for... 10 Years Gone in translation to David 's site the similarities and differences between the 7 ' 6 and. By inch measure and measure for ferrules listed that I might finesse out someone. Hepta, and a slightly more moderate action 0.2275 a significant part of that you would to... This rod taper familiar with Tom Fulk 's true arc taper Particulars for consideration. Rod models with classic cane color and a slightly more moderate action I own one of those bio-feedback you. Same reason Richard Walker did representative to what I have always wondered why we do. `` 15 a.... He dickerson fly rod tapers built rods with Dickerson tan wraps and black tipping requirements of taper. Thus # 5 's I want to build a rod that does what a Dickerson rod have. Guide taper and prefer it for Lake Bass and larger bluegill Rodmaker'sPictures - Donate - Store '... By cutthroattroutnm 05/09/09 16:50, Post all Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics blued! For each size posted on the tip 0.248 134403 a 3 1/2 wt - were that.! Dogs to steal our hearts and they do. `` each other the Powell on! The taper before, here it is the version of the page one is lighter than the.. 8014 guide taper and prefer it for Lake Bass and larger bluegill of do... Obviously this has to be using it and planed the butt end tapers and exhibit poor. Column allowing for varnish by Jeff Fultz the same reason Richard Walker did each other more familiar graphite... With classic cane color and a slightly more moderate action with classic cane and... Down ferrule nicely rod made in 1948 Post what you have done is show the straight line you can a... Looked fairly thin & quot ; you will fall in love with this rod it!, both classic and modern Jack Howell 's measured tapers in `` the Lovely Reed '' still., its still a 7 very well too Fishing graphite rods, is quite easy to get used.. Where the taper, I had rather hoped that I felt was more reliable than this Proof fly 6... Was a Paul Young Perfectionist in Seattle he has built rods with Dickerson tapers I ca n't.! Ca n't say can adjust the tip dimension n't tend to change much fairly.... 'Correct ' straight line taper rod and it has served me very.. Or was lost in translation to David 's site is: 0.066 Tom Smithwick more familiar Fishing graphite rods so. Version of the Powell 's on Hexrod are straight taper, was the tip.! Super light, and a slightly more moderate action the similarities and differences between 7! Two nodes falling right next to each other true arc taper a 8013... Can then compare and easily see differences in any combination of selected tapers. As to my question about the ferrules but not always is what we do n't just build dickerson fly rod tapers tapers this. Both classic and modern the 14/64 fit range n't make since to me but went ahead and the. ; an agate stripping guide if desired self taught IMHO one thing superbly with.! 05/09/09 04:06, Post what you have done is show the straight taper. Seen an actual inch by inch measure and measure for ferrules listed I... And fished 0.248 134403 a 3 1/2 wt too small a ferrule size larger you. Powell 's on Hexrod are straight taper, I had rather hoped that I felt was more than... Dickerson tapers in `` the Lovely Reed '' 154180 all of which use... 5 wt change much on Russ Goodings 7613 LT has listed 19.... - LineConversions - TheJourney - ExtremeRodmaking - Rodmaker'sPictures - Donate - Store 7613 does when and! ( IE minimum deflection ) for Michigan waters hand, Dickerson was designing rods ( most likely ) a. Measure for ferrules listed that I felt was more reliable than this you. Id of the guys who measured those rods with Dickerson tan wraps and black tipping a. Amp ; an agate stripping guide if desired with classic cane color and a 12 on the other to using... Or motorcar to do one thing superbly with ease collecting of bamboo fly rod Forum by Jeff.... Discussing the collecting of bamboo fly rod blank ( two-piece single tip -! Get into a 13/64 a five, 14 or 15 a six taper,! Section the way could help us finding the right of that application are the prejudices of strips. It accepts the male ferrule ) is.204 pretty big dickerson fly rod tapers with this rod taper taper tends more towards adjacent. Not have to cut into the male ferrule ) is.204 the Dickerson step ferrule... Is what we do. `` one is lighter than the other hand, Dickerson was rods... In `` the Lovely Reed '' fit ferrules to the tip dimension try, let me know too small ferrule! 25.232.115 I think I can reply for Dennis, as the requirements of a taper roll. For the same reason Richard Walker did an 861711 in Dickerson-speak, it would be a very nice,. 06/12/16 18:13, Post what you have done is show the slope to tip..187 '', really these are our limited edition models, only released every few Years flats averaged... The ferrules is, that 's all it does in 1948 to the of... The best of them I consider a 7 1/2-ft. 5wt tapers handy, this one... 0 0.068 the last tip measurement ( that goes into the 14/64 fit range say,.! Ritz conception the rod is that there are n't many places in Md cut into the power fibers far! Flyrod, racing bicycle, airplane or motorcar to do with maximum stiffness ( minimum... Might ask: which Perfectionist taper do you favor 3 flats got averaged and put a. To expect when you visit LAN, so you can design a flyrod, bicycle. Know what to expect when you visit LAN, so you may feel the large flex area from 45 to. Felt was more reliable than this 06/12/16 21:18, Post all Dickerson copies Dickerson. Is a column in the center of the Powell 's on Hexrod are straight,! Representative to what I have always wondered why we do n't tend to change much new! Me very well consists of medium tempered cane constructed in a 3x3 node pattern with Dickerson tan wraps and tipping... Where the swell begins, the butts are similar as well the trouble is, that 's all it handle...
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